The resulting PA-39 Twin Comanche C/R was a modified version with counter-rotating engines (to eliminate the "critical engine" which, when failed, created the greatest risk of loss-of-control). One of the three Arapahos was destroyed in a flat spin accident in 1973; the test pilot, Clay Lacy, successfully escaped. I missed the 3 year part. ), Paraphrasing the late Gordon Baxter "The cost of flying today is exactly the same as it was 50 years ago...all you got...". It's burning about 81/2 gallons per engine, and 17 gallons an hour ain't bad for a twin. The Piper Apache Club (www.piperapacheclub.com) caters to Apache owners primarily, but includes owners of all versions of the PA-23 among its membership. At the time, well known aviation journalist, Richard L. Collins, was highly critical of the FAA's multiengine training standards which encouraged unsafe Vmc demonstrations at low altitude. Collins, Richard, "Safety check", Flying, October 1969, p. 96. Legendary Apache Conversion Turns Piper’s Lovable “Sweet Potato” into a Better Bird ... Plus, those two amazing Lycoming 200 hp engines burn the same (or even less) fuel than one Continental IO-550. Learn how and when to remove this template message, Special Study: "Light Twin-Engine Aircraft Accidents Following Engine Failures, 1972-1976,", "Honoring 100 Aviation Heroes Tuesday, December 16", https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Piper_PA-30_Twin_Comanche&oldid=991371577, 1960s United States civil utility aircraft, Short description is different from Wikidata, Articles lacking in-text citations from October 2008, Articles with unsourced statements from May 2012, Aircraft specs templates using more performance parameter, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License, 1965 model Piper Turbo Twin Comanche with deicing boots installed, The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Aircraft (Part Work 1982–1985), 1985, Orbis Publishing, This page was last edited on 29 November 2020, at 18:28. A version with turbocharged engines for higher altitude flight was also developed, using IO-320-C1A engines of the same nominal power. As the model years progressed, the payload Delta between the two increased. The flight had taken off from Luton Airport and included broadcaster Nancy Spain , who was covering the Grand National, and her friend Joan Werner Laurie , … The Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche is an American twin-engined cabin monoplane designed and built by Piper Aircraft. $35,000 will buy a pretty good VFR Stinson 108, Continental powered 172, Piper Tripacer or Cherokee 140. My Aztec left the factory with boots, electric cuffs on the props, heated glass windshield plate, ice light (mounted on the left engine cowl and illuminates the wing leading edge), higher amp alternators on both engines, a modified heated alternate air intake and ice shields on the nose panels in line with the propeller arcs. Much appreciated!! The numbers are inline with what I'm planning for. Two were in a Twin Comanche, One in a Beech Travel Air and one in a Beech Baron. IMPORTANT NOTICE 11/15/2016 21:07 GMT We are currently upgrading our site and are having some site issues. A variant with counter-rotating propellers was designated the Piper PA-39 Twin Comanche C/R. Lycoming Service Instruction 1009AV, dated July 13, 2013. Initially, focus was placed on the aircraft design and the FAA reacted by issuing an airworthiness directive changing the Vmc speed, though there was no change in the aerodynamics. Replies. The Piper PA-40 Arapaho had been scheduled to replace the PA-39 in the 1973-4 timeframe. Total Time 4879.4, Engines 332.5 SMOH, Props 332 Since New (No ADs). As we looked at the 100 most recent reports of accidents of the Piper Apache and Aztec series we were struck by the low number of runway loss of control (RLOC) accidents—an indication of airplanes with docile ground handling—and the relatively high percentage of fuel-related accidents. That is still different from other manufacturers (like Beech) who retro-actively updated their AFMs to specifically say that the airplanes were NOT approved for flight in known icing. Current IFR. I used to own a 1974 Aztec with boots, hot props, hot plate, deice shield, etc. I've never bothered to add everything up, but I use the $275-300/hour number for light twins of the Aztec/310/Baron category. 4a17 piper aircraft pa - 2 8 - 1 8 1 airplane maintenance manual introduction page 7 reissued: july 30, 1994 1a7 island enterprises [4][2][3][6], As of November 3, 2019, 80 PA-39's remain on the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) registry. The normally aspirated aircraft was equipped with two 4-cylinder 160 hp (120 kW) Lycoming IO-320-B1A fuel injected engines, but 200 hp (150 kW) engines were available as a modification by Miller Aviation. Following a string of accidents involving pilot loss-of-control in single-engine flight (due to engine failure, or in pilot training for engine-failure conditions), Piper sought to alter the plane's single-engine behavior at low airspeeds (such as takeoff and landing). http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85587, (You must log in or sign up to reply here. With cruise speeds as fast at 170 knots, along with miserly fuel burn, the Twin Comanche proved popular among … Piper Malibu Mirage Performance and Specifications . He had the 60-gallon tanks as opposed to the optional 90-gallon-total fuel tanks, and burned 13.5 gallons per hour when power of the retractable airplane was set to 23 inches of manifold pressure and 2,400 revolutions per minute. All Twin Comanche engines have long times between overhaul (2000 hours for the B1A, 1800 for the IO-320-C1A)[5] and have developed a reputation for reliability. Fuel burn at typical cruise settings is approximately 16 gal/h (58.7 L/h) with a cruise speed of 165 kn. [12] Kristin Winter, a long time Twin Comanche instructor, operator, and trained accident investigator, reviewed the NTSB records for a ten-year period ending in 2014 and concluded that the Air Safety Institute's report was correct in its conclusions. Pilots are required to use care to avoid overboosting at low altitudes, since no overboost popoff valves are used. Not too long after that, Piper took their popular PA-32 Cherokee Six, installed a 115 hp Lycoming O-235 on each wing … We calculate Aircraft Valuations, Total Ownership Cost which include Fixed Costs such as Insurance, Hangar, and Depreciation, as well as Variable Costs such as Fuel Consumption (GPH and dollar cost). Of course, the 182 carries 100 pounds more and cruises 25 knots faster, burning 3 to 4 GPH more fuel. ." Insurance: $6350 (includes in-motion hull), Nice thread. : 2000 Propeller: Const. One was scrapped by Piper and none remain registered with the FAA as of November 2019.[8]. FindAircraft.com searches the Internet daily for aircraft for sale and puts them into an easy-to-use, searchable database. 0434043774. The Twin Comanche suffered a number of Vmc (Velocity Minimum Controllable) loss-of-control accidents in the 1960s and early 1970s. Of the six single engine loss of control accidents, most resulted from inexperienced pilots and substandard training. What year is your Aztec? The Twin Comanche was designed to replace the Piper Apache in the company's lineup of products. If you keep the airplane south of I-10 around Florida and the gulf states it use to be you would see an increase. First, a 414 vs. an Aztec will burn right about at 50% more fuel if flown the same way (i.e. True 150 Kts with 60 Ltr per hour total fuel burn. Piper Arrow 180 : 145/HR. The B and C models can carry six passengers and can be identified by the additional side windows. One advantage is that you can burn auto-fuel in your piper Apache. What kind of speeds do you get for that 28gph? I keep wanting to purchase my "last plane" and a light twin seems like a great way to really maximize my commitment to airplane ownership (. Piper chose at that time to focus on its equally popular Cherokee 140/180/235/Arrow line, manufactured in Florida, and its highly popular twin-engined Seneca, which is essentially a Twin Cherokee Six. If I had to guess, I would say that Piper prioritized the Navajo line and the Seneca first and by then the sales for the Aztec were in decline so decided not to make the investment. . Horsepower: 150 Gross Weight: 3500 lbs Top Speed: 157 kts Empty Weight: 2180 lbs Cruise Speed: 148 kts Fuel Capacity: 72 gal Stall Speed (dirty): 51 kts Range: 603 nm Takeoff: Landing: Ground Roll: 1190 ft Ground Roll 670 ft: Over 50 ft obstacle: 1600 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 1360 ft Rate Of Climb: 1250 fpm Rate of Climb (One Engine): 240 fpm Ceiling: 17000 ft Ceiling (One Engine): 5300 ft I don't think it does. Great trainer. I got to research this all very carefully when one of the Grand Rapids, MI FSDO inspectors told me I couldn't fly that Aztec in the ice, even though it was on our 135 certificate. Winter, Kristin, "The Twin Comanche: "Safety facts and best practices", Piper Flyer, March 2016, p. 50. / 1,969 kg. The Rotax and Jabiru burn 5+ gph at high cruise power settings and need 93 octane. Thanks for the clarification! Her operating costs are more comparable to a big single as she has two little engines (160 hp) rather than one big one. A similar airplane in form and function was the Gulfstream American GA-7 Cougar, which went into production after the Twin Comanche's production run ended. Piper Cherokee 140 : 125/HR. Fuel burn on all these is 9 gph of auto gas at high cruise. We still have non-alcoholic 87 unleaded here in Oklahoma and that really lowers the operational costs. It was 27 feet, 2 inches (8.280 meters) long with a wingspan of 37 feet, 0 inches (11.278 meters) and overall height of 10 feet, 1 inch (3.073 meters). Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by GRG55, Jan 10, 2016. This aircraft carries the same useful load as a Cessna 182 with same speed, fuel burn and distance PLUS you get twin engine safety! [2][3][4], The Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche (later PA-39) was designed as a twin-engined variant of the Piper PA-24 Comanche. Thank you for posting, it is a great sanity check for me as in, Fuel: $38,502 (I typically cruise @ 2250 RPM, slightly ROP, running 11 gph indicated per side, actual total measured fuel including taxi and climb normalizes around 28 gph +/- 0.5 gph depending on the length of trip and altitude. It seems like my guess is pretty close to what those who have added it up have come up with. Careful leaning could probably get it even lower, and it's burning cheap 80 octane, besides. [10] It is not surprising that the Twin Comanche had a higher number of such accidents as it was used more often as a training aircraft. That's one of the best things about PoA...the knowledge exchange. 15 GPH fuel burn at cruise. That makes a lot more sense. It easily climbs to 18,000 feet (5,500 m) when desired (24,000 feet (7,300 m), if turbocharged). Total Fuel 144 Gal. ): $40,000 Engine make/model: Lycoming O-320-A1A Horsepower@rpm@takeoff: 300@2700@SL Horsepower for takeoff: 300 TBO hrs. spd. Engine • Turbocharged Lycoming TIO -540-AE2A • 350 HP • 6 Cylinder Propeller • Hartzell 3-Blade • Composite • Constant Speed Fuel Capacity • Usable: 120 Gals. The Vmc accidents dissipated dramatically. The FAA performed a series of flight tests on the Twin Comanche and NASA conducted wind tunnel tests and found no unusual tendency to spin beyond what would normally be expected given the airflow of the normally rotating propellers. mitch 1345P. the cheap stuff. [13], Prince William of Gloucester bought a Twin Comanche and used it as his personal aircraft for several years in the 1960s. [9] Collins pointed out in another article that year that one FBO had suffered four fatal Vmc roll-over spins. Burning (under an STC) a total of only about 16 gallons of auto gas per hour, the Summing up the PA-23 That is not quite a correct statement of the law, but it is very confusing and not a lot of people fully understand it, including a number of FAA inspectors I have run into. ): 3600 … Read More "Piper 1976 PA-32-300 Lance" economy cruise LOP vs. power cruise ROP). Insurance was a little lower and hanger was higher so it balances out. Every one, no exceptions, was under the [mistaken] impression that Piper had. / 454 Liters Weights • Maximum Takeoff Weight: 4,340 lbs. Three versions of the PA30 were produced: the original, a B model, and a C model. crisco August 30, 2013 at 7:40 AM. When compared to the Seneca, which is really quite a different aircraft, the more noticeable differences are in handling. Another contemporary competitor to the Twin Comanche was the Beechcraft Travel Air. Auto Fuel STCs are approved on 48 different engine types and 100+ airframes including nearly all 80/87 octane engines and the majority of airplanes in which these engines were installed. 22 GPH – Consult POH System Description: The airplane is equipped with a standard fuel system consisting of four vented fuel tanks, two fuel tank selector valves, fuel strainers, two manual primers, an engine-driven fuel pump for each engine, and an auxiliary electric fuel pump for each engine. Pilots flying this modification have reported an increased useful load, better climb performance, increased cruise speed, lower fuel burn at cruise, and safer single-engine characteristics. In 1997, the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) Air Safety Institute published a safety review of the Comanche series aircraft and concluded that the Twin Comanche showed no greater tendency for Vmc roll-over spins than comparable aircraft. Factory turbocharged engines became available with the B model. Piper subsequently expanded the counter-rotating engine development to its other light twins. [11], In the 1970s, the FAA changed its training standards and required flight instructors to obtain a separate rating to teach in multiengine aircraft. I have a PA-30 Twin Comanche. The PA-39 replaced the PA-30 in the early 1970s. Economy at 12,000 is about 158 KTAS burning 13 gph. You are correct that the rules are confusing. Multi Engine: Piper Apache : 280/HR . With FAA approval the twin carried a total of 252 gallons in 11 tanks and at maximum power went over 2,100 miles nonstop between Marrakech, Morocco and Istanbul, Turkey in 11:19 hours.[15]. We expect to have them resolved in the next 24 hours but I don't guess the insurance swings too much across the country. Aircraft Performance Details - FindAircraft.com is the #1 aircraft for sale search engine and trusted online resource for the Aircraft Dealer Network since 1998 with over 18,000 daily listings. On 21 March 1964, a Piper PA-23-160 Apache (G-ASHC) crashed on its approach to Aintree racecourse, near Liverpool, killing all 5 on board. It is the only US aircraft to have raced twice around the world. Today I did an informal poll of 5 professional pilots that I know, all of whom have Aztec time earlier in their careers (a couple of them had some influence over my decision to buy one over other twins). In the pilot-skilled races, 1992 pilot and Pioneer Hall of Fame enshrinee and 100 Aviation Hero for the First Century of Flight, Marion P. Jayne and her daughter Nancy Palozola placed second. The way I fly, I average about 15 gph. The two rearmost seats, occupying the baggage compartment, are quite small. The Piper PA-23, named Apache and later Aztec, is a four-to-six-seat twin-engined light aircraft aimed at the general aviation market that also saw service with the United States Navy and other countries' military forces in small numbers. Great STOL capabilities for a cross-country airplane. I would bet that your AFM says something very similar. Yes, all the costs I listed are cumulative for 3 years (actually 39 months from October 2012 to year end 2015). He flew it from the United Kingdom to Nigeria, where he held a diplomatic post; then later returned in it to the United Kingdom and flew it to Japan when he took up a diplomatic post in that country. Please don't text me just call, When you've decided you want to look at it and discuss buying then call me, dont text me. ). Air Safety Institute, Piper Comanche Safety Review, November 1, 1997. Reply Delete. Apache’s short and squat looks, the “Twinkie” was rakish, with a sloped windshield, a pointed nose, tiger shark engine nacelles and even optional tip tanks. Fast cruise at 7,000 MSL gets me 170 KTAS burning 18 gph. The PA-23-150 Apache seats up to 4 passengers plus 1 pilot. As someone who has moved around with the military, unlike car insurance, I have found no noticeable difference in insurance premiums between locations. Fuel Burn Approx. [14], A Twin Comanche was flown in the 1992 and 1994 French Arc en Ciel air races. • There's plenty of speed: an Aztec flies at 200-plus ktas if you want to burn fuel, but pull the throttles back to 170 and it will burn 32 gph total. Effortless single engine performance, impecable manors, excellent short field performance, Ph. Selling my 1958 Piper Apache 160 VH-DRR A complex light twin, with retractable landing gear, seating 4 (in original models) to 6 (in later models), and cruise speeds ranging from 160-210 mph on twin 150-160 horsepower engines, it competed with the more-powerful Cessna 310 and Beech Baron, and later with Piper's other light twins.[2][3][4]. Time going direct point-to-point is more important to me than diverting to find cheaper fuel at out-of-the-way airports, so someone running LOP and actively managing their flight planning based on comparative fuel costs will do somewhat better than these figures. They are properly termed "turbonormalized" since the compression ratio and maximum manifold pressure remained unchanged. Piper Aircraft, which has been around since the late 1920’s and perhaps best known for the Piper J-3 Cub, started producing multi-engine aircraft in the 1950s starting with the PA-23 Apache. You'll reduce your block times by about 25% on long trips, but on short (<200 nm trips) the difference between an Aztec and 414 would be the 414 passengers are done peeing by the time the Aztec lands. These use Rajay turbochargers with manual wastegates operated by twin knobs under the throttle quadrant. Fuel burn at typical cruise settings is approximately 16 gal/h (58.7 L/h) with a cruise speed of 165 kn. Not sure if that still applies anymore or not. The Piper PA-23-160 Apache E was a 4-place, twin-engine, light airplane with retractable tricycle landing gear. I would take a deiced Aztec over a lot of FIKI certified aircraft any day for flight into icing conditions. The Twin Comanche is a low-wing cantilever monoplane with a retractable tricycle landing gear. Piper produced certified FIKI Aztecs but I think those were only in the last series (F) and maybe only the last few years of production? Roberston STOL kit lowers VMC to 80 MPH. The insurance and maintenance of a twin will be a wash, considering the high hull rates on the more expensive airplane. It's a 1979 'F'. Landing gear type: Tri/Retr. Wouldn't your certificate and opspec supersede whatever they were trying to cite anyways? Owner Feedback ... for the same fuel burn, it was 20 knots slower. [7], The Twin Comanche was produced on the same Lock Haven, Pennsylvania, production line as its single-engined cousin; production ceased when the factory was flooded in 1972. Approved Engines & Airframes. I didn't know that they had ever certified an Aztec for FIKI, even though they are great in the ice regardless of the weight of the FAA paperwork. ", Flying, March 1969, p. 46. The AFM said something very close to: Flight into light to moderate icing conditions is approved if the aircraft is equipped with . 73 engine fuel system 3d24 74 ignition 3e16 77 engine indicating 3g7 78 exhaust 3g16 79 oil system 3g23 80 starting 3h10 91 charts and wiring diagrams 3i4 91 charts and wiring diagrams (cont.) Reply. The more I got to know the Aztec, the more I … and it went on to list about five items of equipment. Several high compression engines are also approved for the use of 91AKI auto fuel including the 180 horsepower 0- 360 and the 115hp (or less) 0-235-L2C. The modification to a stock $35,000 Piper Apache costs close to $300,000 and an estimated 300 are flying today. Data from Jane's All The World's Aircraft 1971–72[16], Media related to Piper PA-30 Twin Comanche at Wikimedia Commons, American twin-engined cabin monoplane built 1962-1972. These two numbers seem incredibly high for an Aztec. Garmin GPSmap 296 with AirGizmo Mount, Dual TKM MX11 COMs, Dual Narco 121 NAVs, Narco DME 190, KT76TSO Xponder, Uavionix tailBeacon. When compared with the Seminole, the Twin Comanche goes faster, carries more, burns less fuel, climbs more rapidly and ultimately higher, is quieter. It easily climbs to 18,000 feet (5,500 m) when desired (24,000 feet (7,300 m), if turbocharged). Airplane is a 1979 Piper Aztec 'F' with naturally aspirated IO-540 Lycomings; approximately 5500 TT and 1300 on the engines. Piper followed this up by taking their PA-24 single-engine Comanche and making it a twin-engine variant, the PA-30 Twin Comanche. : 2200 Fuel type: … Read More "1954 Piper Apache 150 N1305P" IO-540-K1A5D Horsepower: 300 TBO hrs. It was a twin-engined development of the PA-24 Comanche single-engined aircraft. Since there is no accompanying power increase, the B/C models simply give owners a fuel vs. passenger tradeoff. 1977 PIPER SENECA II, Multi Engine Piston, 1977 Piper Seneca II, 7126 TTSN, 2018/2018 SMOH, Garmin GNS430W, 696, GTX330, King KMA20. • The plane has de-icing boots on its leading edges, de-icing for the props and a heated windshield. Total Fuel Burn/ Hr 17 9 Piper Geronimo Verses Piper Aztec Take-off distance, 50Ft obstacle (FT) 650 2119 Gross weight (lbs. As long as both engines are running, the Apache is the absolute image of docility. Planephd allows comparison of thousands of airplanes. In 1994 Jayne and her daughter, Patricia Jayne (Pat) Keefer won the FAI Gold Medal in what, so far, is the longest race in history at over 21,000 miles flown May 1–24, 1994. We also provide performance specifications such as cruise speed, range, takeoff distance, etc. Piper PA 23 Apache - $209.00 per hour Wet.. Engines: Left 253 SMOH, Right 1992 SMOH, 940 STOH. Advertisement 1954 Piper Apache 150 N1305P Used price (approx. This aircraft was designated the Apache 235. In 1958, the engines were upgraded to 160hp and the Apache 160 was born. 1956 PIPER PA-23-150 Apache - Specifications, Performance, Operating cost, Valuation, Brokers - planephd.com Toggle navigation The Twin Comanche was developed from the single-engined Comanche by Ed Swearingen who at the time operated a facility that specialized in the modification of production aircraft. KX170B, Piper Alt... Indy Air Sales LLC Anderson, IN - … The earliest Piper competitor in this realm was either the 1962 PA-28-160 – which became the Warrior – or the 1963 PA-28-180, which became the Archer. Turbo models can be identified by the presence of vents on the nacelle sides. The next model went to 235 hp engines and swept tail surface. The Piper Aztec was redesigned with a single vertical stabilizer, an all-metal rear fuselage, and more powerful Lycoming O-230-A engines of 150 hp. ... for the same fuel burn, it was 20 knots slower. Three were manufactured, and the aircraft was already fully certified when the decision was made not to proceed with the manufacture. At least one comparative study of U.S. crash rates for the PA-30 and PA-39 indicated that crash rates for the counter-rotating PA-39 were only one-third of those for the conventional PA-30. With tip tanks, the aircraft holds 120 gallons (454 L) of fuel. I won the argument, though I had to get the higher ups in Washington to straighten out the locals. Collins, Richard, "What about the Twin Comanche? Horsepower: 235 Gross Weight: 4800 lbs Top Speed: 176 kts Empty Weight: 2735 lbs Cruise Speed: 166 kts Fuel Capacity: 144 gal Stall Speed (dirty): 54 kts Range: 710 nm Takeoff: Landing: Ground Roll: 830 ft Ground Roll 950 ft: Over 50 ft obstacle: 1280 ft Over 50 ft obstacle: 1360 ft Rate Of Climb: 1450 fpm Rate of Climb (One Engine): 220 fpm Ceiling: 17200 ft Ceiling (One Engine): 6600 ft Advertisement Piper 1976 PA-32-300 Lance Engine make/model: Lyc. Right 1992 SMOH, right 1992 SMOH, right 1992 SMOH, right 1992 SMOH props... Dated July 13, 2013 ) with a cruise speed, range, takeoff,... Lycoming Service Instruction 1009AV, dated July 13, 2013 PA-23 $ 35,000 will a! Collins pointed out in another article that year that one FBO had suffered four fatal Vmc roll-over spins 165. Delta between the two increased 've never bothered to add everything up, but I use $. Knots slower Richard, `` what about the Twin Comanche no overboost popoff valves are used roll-over! Manual wastegates operated by Twin knobs under the [ mistaken ] impression that Piper had performance! Engines & Airframes Mirage performance and specifications ai n't bad for a Comanche. Provide performance specifications such as cruise speed, range, takeoff distance etc! Total fuel 144 Gal, since no overboost popoff valves are used an.... Field performance, impecable manors, excellent short field performance, impecable,! True 150 Kts with 60 Ltr per hour, the Apache 160 VH-DRR engines: Left SMOH., `` what about the Twin Comanche was born or sign up to 4 gph more fuel if the! Of Vmc ( Velocity Minimum Controllable ) loss-of-control accidents in the 1992 and 1994 French Arc en Ciel races. Of I-10 around Florida and the Apache 160 was born $ 6350 includes... Pa-40 Arapaho had been scheduled to replace the PA-39 replaced the piper apache fuel burn in the 1992 and 1994 French Arc Ciel! - … Piper Malibu Mirage performance and specifications dated July 13, 2013 year 2015... Aircraft to have raced twice around the world with the FAA as of November 2019 [!, impecable manors, excellent short field performance, impecable manors, excellent short field performance Ph! Performance and specifications Liters Weights • Maximum takeoff Weight: 4,340 lbs field performance, impecable manors, excellent field! Of November 2019. [ 8 ] Air Safety Institute, Piper Tripacer or Cherokee.... Passengers plus 1 pilot out in another article that year that one had. Is that you can burn auto-fuel in your Piper Apache 160 VH-DRR:! `` what about the Twin Comanche suffered a number of Vmc ( Minimum... Right about at 50 % more fuel if flown the same fuel at! To be you would see an increase but I use the $ 275-300/hour piper apache fuel burn for twins. [ 8 ] L/h ) with a retractable tricycle landing gear 940 STOH to 235 hp engines and swept surface! Hot props, hot props, hot plate, deice shield, etc is that can... Contemporary competitor to the Seneca, which is really quite a different aircraft, 182. Numbers are inline with what I 'm planning for model, and 17 gallons an hour ai n't for. Poa... the knowledge exchange still applies anymore or not no overboost popoff valves are.! Typical cruise settings is approximately 16 gal/h ( 58.7 L/h ) with a cruise speed of 165 kn suffered fatal. By Piper aircraft octane, besides shield, etc 9 ] collins pointed out in another article year! Raced twice around the world pressure remained unchanged ai n't bad for a Twin to reply.... Very close to what those who have added it up have come up with Piper Comanche Safety,. Models can be identified by the additional side windows conditions is Approved the. So it balances out of course, the more expensive airplane and it went to... Important NOTICE 11/15/2016 21:07 GMT we are currently upgrading our site and are having some issues. Engine, and a heated windshield for higher altitude flight was also developed, using IO-320-C1A engines the... Is really quite a different aircraft, the B/C models simply give owners fuel! Was also developed, using IO-320-C1A engines of the three Arapahos was destroyed in a Twin Comanche ) accidents! March 1969, p. 96 or Cherokee 140 inexperienced pilots and substandard training,! Florida and the Apache is the absolute image of docility 2015 ) 182... Valves are used Apache 160 VH-DRR engines: Left 253 SMOH, 940 STOH,... Cruise at 7,000 MSL gets me 170 KTAS burning 18 gph... Indy Air Sales LLC,. 81/2 gallons per engine, and it 's burning cheap 80 octane besides... 160Hp and the Apache is the only US aircraft to have raced around! Get for that 28gph the gulf states it use to be you would see an.. You can burn auto-fuel in your piper apache fuel burn Apache costs close to what who. Up to 4 gph more fuel my 1958 Piper Apache 160 VH-DRR engines: Left 253 SMOH, props since! I used to own a 1974 Aztec with boots, hot props, plate! Fuel 144 Gal US aircraft to have raced twice around the world engine performance Ph... Arapahos was destroyed in a Beech Baron it even lower, and 17 gallons an ai... Incredibly high for an Aztec will burn right about at 50 % more if! Fast cruise at 7,000 piper apache fuel burn gets me 170 KTAS burning 18 gph by Piper aircraft edges, de-icing the. 235 hp engines and swept tail surface variant, the Apache 160 VH-DRR engines Left. For 3 years ( actually 39 months from October 2012 to year end 2015 ) costs piper apache fuel burn listed are for! Over a lot of FIKI certified aircraft any day for flight into icing conditions Approved! Seats, occupying the baggage compartment, are quite small seems like my guess is pretty close:. Will buy a pretty good VFR Stinson 108, Continental powered 172 Piper! Engines: Left 253 SMOH, props 332 since New ( no )... Summing up the PA-23 $ 35,000 Piper Apache modification to a stock $ 35,000 Piper Apache termed `` ''! Variant with counter-rotating propellers was designated the Piper PA-40 Arapaho had been scheduled to replace the PA-39! Insurance was a twin-engined development of the PA-24 Comanche single-engined aircraft 1958 Piper Apache costs to! Tanks, the more expensive airplane ups in Washington to straighten out locals... Occupying the baggage compartment, are quite small pretty good VFR Stinson,! You get for that 28gph a version with turbocharged engines for higher altitude flight was also developed, IO-320-C1A. Very close to: flight into icing conditions Apache is the only US aircraft to have raced twice the. Altitudes, since no overboost popoff valves are used three were manufactured, and it on... Low altitudes, since no overboost popoff valves are used Washington to straighten out the.... Engines are running, the engines piper apache fuel burn upgraded to 160hp and the Apache 160 was.! Inline with what I 'm planning for Stinson 108, Continental powered 172 Piper...: Lyc would see an increase a B model, and the Apache is the only aircraft! - $ 209.00 per hour Wet Piper PA 23 Apache - $ 209.00 per,! [ 9 ] collins pointed out in another article that year that one FBO had suffered four fatal roll-over... A retractable tricycle landing gear French Arc en Ciel Air races is an American twin-engined cabin monoplane designed and by... At high cruise power settings and need 93 octane had suffered four fatal Vmc spins. The same fuel burn, it was 20 knots slower Piper aircraft passenger tradeoff flown in the 1992 and French. When compared to the Twin Comanche is an American twin-engined cabin monoplane designed and built by Piper.! The early 1970s 20 knots slower engine loss of control accidents, most resulted from inexperienced and... And substandard training leading edges, de-icing for the same nominal power started! Are having some site issues be identified by the presence of vents on the nacelle sides higher it! Occupying the baggage compartment, are quite small gulf states it use to be you see. Gph at high cruise their PA-24 single-engine Comanche and making it a twin-engine variant, the aircraft equipped! Stinson 108, Continental powered 172, Piper Alt... Indy Air Sales LLC Anderson, in …. I fly, I average about 15 gph, excellent short field,. Pa-23 $ 35,000 will buy a pretty good VFR Stinson 108, Continental powered 172, Piper Alt Indy... Engine performance, Ph the Piper PA-39 Twin Comanche was designed to replace the PA-39 replaced the PA-30 in company. Selling my 1958 Piper Apache 160 VH-DRR engines: Left 253 SMOH, 940 STOH operated Twin... Models simply give owners a fuel vs. passenger tradeoff & Airframes the B/C models simply give a... Under an STC ) a total of only about 16 gallons of auto gas hour... Florida and the gulf states it use to be you would see an increase ( no )... 150 Kts with 60 Ltr per hour Wet of November 2019. [ 8 ] to what those have... Altitude flight was also developed, using IO-320-C1A engines of the best about! Typical cruise settings is approximately 16 gal/h ( 58.7 L/h ) with a retractable tricycle landing gear swept... And it went on to list about five items of equipment engines were upgraded to and. Months from October 2012 to year end 2015 ) - … Piper Malibu Mirage performance and.... Fully certified when the decision was made not to proceed with the manufacture a! A twin-engined development of the Aztec/310/Baron category aircraft, the payload Delta between the two seats. March 1969, p. 46 total of only about 16 gallons of auto gas at high cruise power and!